Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Ramban comes, he says, you know, I always understood the story of Rachel dying and what, right. I always understood it one way.
Now that I've merited, and I'm here in Eret, Israel. Wow. I can see where it really happened. I can really understand it, right. Or even go back even further. And the Gemara talks about going to the site of the Mishkan in Shiloh, smelling the Keturah. This is hundreds and hundreds of years after the Mishkan is gone, but they're metaphorically smelling because there's a power to the place, right? So, yes, teaching in the classroom is important, but teaching Bashetta, it's a whole different world.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Welcome back to the Quorum podcast. And today I am flying solo as Alex is away. But I'm going to be speaking to Israel based educator and tour guide Shuli Mishkin, who is going to be sharing with us a little bit of her Torah al Raghallahat and the Torah that drives her in educating groups and students from around the world about Torah in the field. She is a tour guide that takes the texts back to their sources and to show the real world and the world, the realia, the world that we read about in the Tanakh and the Talmud is set in. And to understand how being in the field really gives just an even greater understanding of that, and particularly as we're now in the three weeks between Shiva, Asaba, Tammas, and Tisha Bav, to get a feeling and understanding of what we can learn about the Qurban standing here in Yerushalayim. So, without further ado, here's my conversation with Shuli Mishkin as she teaches us her Torah, our regalachat. We are very excited to be joined by Shuli Mishkin on this week's episode. Shuli, thank you so much for joining us.
[00:02:12] Speaker A: Thank you for having me.
[00:02:14] Speaker B: Well, to get started, our question for this season. Can you teach us your Torah al Raghallahat?
[00:02:19] Speaker A: Okay, so I'm a tour guide. I started out in my life doing a master's in jewish history, made aliyah, didn't really continue to doing a doctorate, and decided along the way to become a tour guide. But I still look at everything through the lens of jewish history. That's really my approach, is Tanakh and jewish education and jewish history. And I really do feel that it's very. Well, first of all, I believe it. But I also feel it's important to understand that we are links in the chain, that we are part of this much longer process that can be comforting or disturbing, depending on which part of the process you're looking at.
I went on a tour many years ago with rabies Chaklevi from Ishibat Haretyan, who's just a wonderful Torah personality. And we were standing on Har Kabir right outside of Elon Moreh, and we were looking at Har Ghuzim and Hari bal, and he talked about Master Avot Siman Lebanim, which I'm sure your listeners know. Right. Very important idea in the Gemara, made famous probably by the Ramban, who talks about how we follow in the footsteps of our forefathers. And Yeshua travels in the same places that Abraham travels, and we have foreshadowing, but also continuing the chain and the story. And he talked about how we, on our Sior, are part of Masa Avotzi man Levanim, that when we continue to visit the places that have been visited before, then we are part of that chain of history, chain of tradition, and we're carrying on the story. And I really do feel that that is very important.
You know, we're here in Israel. We're on the stage of jewish history.
I can't imagine being anywhere else, even in this complicated time that we're in.
And to be able to walk on the stage and also to kind of peek backstage is a very exciting thing. So that's really how I feel about what I teach, that we want to understand the context. We want to understand the behind the stages of the story of Tanakh and of the Mishnah and the Gemara and jewish history in general.
[00:04:45] Speaker B: Okay, so now we're at the time of recording. We're just beginning the period of the three weeks, and I want to get a little bit into talking a bit about the Quraban and how we relate to that in your teaching. But just before we get there, tell us a little bit about just in terms of the difference you find. I mean, you teach both in the shattach and in the classroom, how you find the difference between teaching a text when you're standing there versus teaching it on whether it's in a classroom or in zoom. How does it change? What's the difference?
[00:05:19] Speaker A: Well, first of all, it's so much easier to teach as a tour guide than as a teacher because there's always something to look at. Nobody gets bored when you're in the classroom. There's always this, oh, well, what am I going to bring in? And what's going to be interesting? But when you're outside, there it is. It's right in front of you. And that's what I try to do also in my zoom classes. Since COVID I've been doing a lot of Zoom less now, but it's coming back. We're waiting for the tourists to return.
And when I do zoom, I never just teach a text. I always bring in lots and lots of pictures. I want you to be there, because being there changes the whole experience. Yes. Obviously, there are levels of Torah that have nothing to do with the shattach, but it adds an extra, deeper layer of understanding. Some things, obviously, are more necessary than others. Right. My example of Hargrezem and Hareva with Rabbi tak levi. If you read the story of the Brachot and the Khalot, right, that Moshe tells am Yisrael at the end of Devarim, and then we hear about it happening and say, for Yoshua, we understand that there's this monumental meeting, and everyone comes together, and we have this kind, covenantal moment, and it's very, very important. But when you stand there and you look at it, you actually can picture the way it might have happened and when you read about what it looked like in the past. Right. That's a truly amazing example, because we have a traveler from the 19th century, a reverend, who is very much was a Bible guy, and he's traveling through the valley between Grizim and Yvonne. He says, let's try it out. Let's see if it's going to work.
And he says, if you look, you'll see that it's a natural amphitheater, that the sides of the mountain are kind of indented, and it enhances the sound. And he tries it out, and today, that's a little harder to see because you have the urban sprawl of schmem. But still, it's an impressive thing to see it. So some places really naturally lend themselves. But even if it's just the scenery, right. You go to Shiloh, and you see where the Mishkan was. That's a powerful thing, and I think it's a powerful thing.
Our ancestors also talk about it. Right. The ramban comes. He says, you know, I always understood the story of Rachel dying and what. Right. I always understood it one way now that I've merited, and I'm here in Eret, Israel. Wow. I can see where it really happened. I can really understand it. Right. Or even go back even further. In the Gemara, it talks about going to the site of the Mishkan in Shiloh, smelling the kettorate. This is hundreds and hundreds of years after the Mishkan is gone, but they're metaphorically smelling the Torah because there's a power to the place, right? So, yes, teaching in the classroom is important, but teaching Bashatach, it's a whole different world.
[00:08:22] Speaker B: And I guess moving towards the Khorban, like, can you maybe take our listeners through, like, an example? Obviously, it's very difficult, not only not visual, but just in, just audio and as well as not even being there in person. But I guess just take our listeners through maybe a particular place that you feel like really brings kind of the messages that you try and put across at the time. This time of year.
An example of that, maybe.
[00:08:45] Speaker A: Well, there's two issues when you talk about the Whorban and this time of year. Okay, obviously we want to understand the Korban. And unfortunately, this year, I think we have a deeper understanding than we've had in a few generations. But before that, in a way, this is similar to when talk about other tragedies in jewish history. We want to understand the life that was there, right? So when we talk about the Holocaust, we don't want to only talk about the destruction. We want to talk about the jewish communities. When we talk about the inquisition in Spain, the expulsion, we want to understand the power of the jewish community.
The same thing with, if we don't understand the place of the Mikdash in jewish life, then we can't possibly understand the whorban. Because, okay, it was a structure. It was an important structure, but nobody's going to have a day of mourning for 2000 years if the shul burns down. Right? That doesn't happen. What was the Mikdash? What was its power? How did it relate to everybody's lives? And this is obviously on a, on a philosophical level, right? Rabbi ol bin Nun wrote about this many, many years ago about the place of the Mikdash and our national consciousness. But it's also on a physical level. So a place that I would go to, which I think includes both of these ideas, both of the life before and the destruction afterwards, is the classic the southern wall in Jerusalem, the excavations that were done already in the 19th century.
Captain Charles Warren comes from England. He understands that this is someplace important. But really what happened after 1967 is when we were able to really expose the foundations of the street, the main street, what people call Wall street, right? The street that ran along the western wall of the Temple Mount. And there you really do see both sides of it, right? Because you see what was excavated there, which are the stores and the sidewalk and the reality of the Beit Hamikdash. You can understand the entrance. You have the monumental staircase of Robinson's arch. You have the street, literally, you're walking on the paving stones of the last few decades of Bayh Cheney. You have the storefronts where they discovered money and they discovered even a small piece of stone that said on it, Kufresh, Betnun, Korban. Because this was a place where people bought their Korbanot. And you find stone vessels. So you understand the concept of purity and how purity was so important parts of Torah, of Israel. And you can see weights and see how things were measured, and you really get a sense of the life. And not only that, the other thing that's there that's very powerful is you have a piece of kind of like a balcony, which says on it, well, the original is now in Israel museum, but there's a copy at the southern wall. Le bay tat kia. Right. Le bay tatkia. Le ha. Le hav. Right. What's the beta tkia? It was the place according to the Gemara, right. It's bringing the Gemara to life, where the Leviim would go up on Friday afternoon and blow a shofar or a hatzotzra, really a trumpet, in order to say, okay, Shabbat is beginning, so you really can bring to life what was that reality, that all encompassing reality of the Mikdash. It's not just about Korbanot. It's the economy, it's social life, it's Shabbat. It takes you into every part of your jewish life. But the. And you have Mikvaot there, of course, right? So many different pieces. The other thing that's there is, of course, the story of the Khorban. And the excavators did a brilliant thing when they finished excavating there. This was really done in the. It started after 67, but a lot of what was done on this street was in the nineties.
And what they did is the whole street was covered with a huge layer of these massive stones, right? Because the Romans had pushed down those enormous stones that made up the retaining walls around the around. So first they had to clear away the stones in order to excavate. But when they finished, they finished excavating and they opened up the site to the public. They said, you know what? We're going to leave a pile of stones as a silent witness. This is the story of the Khorban. This is what it was like. Obviously, we have to add so many details and we want to read what Hazal say and what Josephus says, and so many. But you have that image in front of you, so that, I think is a powerful one. The other place, if I can add another place, can I add another place, please?
Is a place that actually just reopened. It was closed for a few years to do preservation work. And that's the herodian quarter, inside the jewish quarter. When the jewish quarter was rebuilt after the Six Day War, we had a very unusual opportunity to excavate. Everybody understood that the jewish quarter had had millennia of settlement, but it was always built up. You couldn't excavate it. When the Jordanians destroyed so much of the quarter in 1948, when we came back after the six day war, we were able to excavate. And one of the most amazing things that was found there was the houses of the Kohanim from 2000 years ago.
And it's really something that you get a sense again, what was life like? And also what was the destruction now, what was life like here is a little bit different. In the southern wall. You get a sense of this, the power of Aliyala regal and all the people coming in the pilgrimage. And it's really a very positive experience. In the herodian quarter, it's a much more mixed experience, because here you are in the houses of the elite.
Now, we know from literature, from Khazal, right? Khazal talk about this. Josephus talks about this, that there were Khanim who were corrupt, not all Kohanim. I always apologize if I have Kohanim in my group, but there were definitely Kohanim that were very powerful and use their connections to make a lot of money. And these are the places. This is where they built their houses.
And you see that in the houses, you see incredibly expensive, beautiful tiles and pillars and frescoes. And also, besides the stone vessels, because they were so careful about purity. You see beautiful glass vessels, and you just get a sense of the opulence on the one hand, and on the other hand, that they're very, very, very, very careful about certain mitzvot. And I would emphasize the certain.
They're very, very careful about purity.
And we know that Hazal talk about that parts attar of Israel. So they have only stone vessels, and each house has two, three, four mikvaot.
They're very, very mock about those kinds of things. But on the other hand, and Chazal also tell us this. Where's the money coming from? Kohanim are not wealthy. It's coming from exactly what the Gemara tells us, that they would extort people, that they would appoint their relatives to positions. You have to remember that the beta Mikdash is essentially a vast bank. Right? There's a lot of money, there's a lot of potential for money. And they exploited that to the greatest extent. So that's the everyday life that you see, which is somewhat of a negative portrait of our everyday life. But the other thing you see, and Nachman Avigad was the excavator was very affected by this here. And also across the way in what's called today the burnt house, he uncovered thick layers of ashes and he writes about how people would come to take home some of the ashes as a Zehar Lahorban. And here we have this situation where for 2000 years we have been mourning on Tishabov. Right. It's something that we have the famous story about Napoleon. Oh, you're mourning a temple that's so old. How can you mourn like that?
And it really is very abstract. And suddenly here in 1970, wow, you have physical evidence of the Khorban. And that's an unbelievable thing that had never happened before in history.
So it really is a very, very powerful place where you can get a sense, you still need a nice amount of imagination, but you can get a sense of what the Khorban was like. And like I said, unfortunately, this year we don't need so much imagination.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Now I want to come back to that a bit later. But just before that, I was wondering whether there are any other places, like, I think, for example, one of the things people forget or they see the Qur'an is like Tisha Bav, like at best, three weeks up to Tisha Bav, and that was it. But actually, with both Bateh and Mikdash, there was a big buildup of events that happened across Israel. Are there other places, let's say outside Jerusalem, that you take group story, you've guided that where actually feel like here's a place to go to to see where a part of the Qur'an, of the story of the fall of Yerushalayim, or, you know, that you wouldn't necessarily expect to learn about the Qurban there.
[00:18:19] Speaker A: First of all, in Yerushalayim, we don't want to forget about Bayer vision. And for that, in Ir David, you have parts of it. You have also remnants of the battles and the destructions in the first Beit Hamikdash. Also inside the Rova and other places around Jerusalem, you have remnants of the battles of the first Beit Hamikdash. Outside of Jerusalem.
Well, Shiloh is actually interesting. Right. We have Khorban. Shiloh, in some ways is a presaging, a foreshadowing of Khorban Abayan. Right. Yer meow says go to Shiloh because you think Hashem's not going to destroy the Beta Mikdash. He already destroyed the Mishkan. So Shiloh is a little part of that story.
In Bhai Shani, of course, you have the revolt going on all over. Right. In Bhai Vishod, you don't, because we've already lost the north, but in Bayh Sheni, you have the battles that are happening in Yotabat, in the Galil, in Gamla, in the Golan. You have, of course, the story of Masada.
You have the story of the sectarian divisions, which partly led up to the whole story of the Khorban, all the internal divisions. So you have Qumran and the Dead Sea Scrolls. So much that you could do.
But, yeah, Khorban, usually we tend to focus on Jerusalem, but you're right, there are definitely other places. Yodfat, I think, is a place that people don't know very well.
It's really like in the center of the Galil. You don't go there unless you have a reason to go there.
But it really is. It's an astonishing place because we have a lot of details about the battle there from Josephus, who was actually the commander. He was the general at the site.
And he actually tricked everybody who wanted to do a masada before there was Masada. Right, to commit suicide. And he managed. He writes about this himself. He tricked them all and he managed to escape. He goes to the roman general, he gives himself up. Right? Similar to Rabbon, Yochanan ben Zakai, but with personal interests as opposed to national interest. But he describes the battle, he describes the city, and we found remains.
We found remains of the town, which was a rather wealthy town. We found remains of the fortifications and we even found a stone that had on it the image of a crab. Right? A crab is the zodiac image for Tammuz, because it fell in Tammuz.
And we think that this was kind of scratched out by somebody at the time of the battle, at the time of the final battle. So, yeah, for sure, Gamla, Yodvat, all those places are very powerful parts of the story of the Khorban. And you're right, we tend to kind of compact everything into the fall of Jerusalem.
But. But it's definitely happening all over the country.
I would recommend if people want something very visual, very good. Tisha Bav watching is the movie that came out a couple of years ago, giddy Dar's movie, what is it called? Agadota, Agadat Khorban, which I think has english subtitles. Now, if I'm not mistaken, very, very powerful.
Taking the story from Josephus, from Khazal and putting it into an animated form, it's really very strong.
[00:21:58] Speaker B: And one of the things that I think we're seeing now, I guess, as we move into thinking about, I guess, Tisha Bav this year in particular, is we've thought a lot about over the past few months, how narratives of Hurban are told or how narratives of, or how we, how we understand or how we recount effects, events as they happened.
I was wondering if you had any thoughts or just in terms of what we know about how, how the Jews tell themselves the story of the Chorban at the time, how did they share that event? How did, how did news of the events reach other jewish communities around the world?
What do we know about that?
[00:22:40] Speaker A: That's a very interesting question.
Look, we have in Sefer Yirmiyahu where towards the end when we have the Khorban has already happened, right? And Gedalia has set up his mitzpah and then he's murdered. And towards the end of that story, you have a group of ole regel who are coming from the Shomron and Shiloh and they haven't heard yet. Right. I mean, we're in this world of instant now, Biden announced last night, within a second, it's around the world, so it's not so instant. And that's a very interesting question about how it spread.
News spread definitely more than we picture it today. To think about traveling to Babel, traveling to Iraq is like impossible to us. And the rabbis did that all the time, but definitely at a slower pace. But one of the things that I think is very interesting, and yes, we have been thinking about this a lot. You know, how do we memorialize, how do we remember Khazal are not historians. They don't tell history, except Derek Agav. Right. When you think about how the Mishnah is redacted after this enormous double tragedies of the Khurban and then bar Kokhba, there's a couple of pages in Gita, and there's a mention here we don't have history. But what hazal do very beautifully is that in a very subtle way, they are always, always remembering the Mikdash. Right. If you think about the openings of many of the masach tot. Right. Think about brachot. Right? Classic beginning of the Mishnah meematai Korean kriyat Shema. Right? What's the first answer? We talk about the mishmarot in the Beit Hamikdash. Really? That's. That's your go to, right. That's how you think about. When do we. We say Kriya shema. We think about what mishmerid and when did they get up? That's a weird I association. Not if you want to always be remembering the Mikdash. All right. We get to Sukkah. We talk about heights of sukkah. We're talking about the height of the Mishkan. Right. We talk about eruv. Same idea.
Right? Shabbos, where are the lama tat? Malachot. The malachot of making the mishkan. We're always bringing the conversation back, even on the most everyday level. Right. Think about Shiurim. Right. What are our halachic? Shiurim. Right. We talk about a Kazaitan, or we talk about a grogaret. A fig. We want to talk about the Shiva haminim. Actually, Bakumara, that says all of the shirim come from the Shiva Taminem. You're not in Eret Yisrael. The Mikdash is not standing, but you are gonna bring Eret Israel into everything in your life. Now, how do we translate that into our modern world? I don't know. That's a very good question. That's for the philosophers, not for me.
But I do think that it's very clear that for Khazal now, they're always balancing. Right. Rabban Yochanan ben zakaya, you always have the Zeicher Lamikdash. You're always remembering, but you're also the Mehrayi bane ha Mikdash. Right. We have to cope with the reality that we have. So we'll do things that are Tumermakbar, but we're moving on. But you know what? It could happen tomorrow, it could happen the next day.
And that idea that we could return and we could come back, we have someone in my community who, since the disengagement from Gushkatif, she wears orange every day. Okay, this is 18 years, and we're living in Gushaetion. Right. I'm living in Gush etion, where we had 19 years of exile, and we came back. This belief that we are going to come back. We are going to return. We're going to rebuild. This is very much a part of Judaism that we never say it's over and it's finished. Now we're always thinking about what's going to happen next and the gula, and how do we move forward towards that. So memory, but also action. How do you do that? Gotta ask some of your other podcast guests.
[00:26:53] Speaker B: And in terms of this year, I mean, what are you thinking about or reflecting on how the three weeks in Tisha Bav is going to be this year compared to previous years in recent history?
[00:27:05] Speaker A: I don't know.
We're not so good at integrating. I don't know how much people are going to talk about what's happening now in the religious world, at least. I think we're a little bit set in our ways.
But what I do think is a comforting thing.
And this is what I said in the beginning, we're part of a very long story.
I take people down to the sometimes, and I find it is very, very important to explain that history did not begin on October 6. You have to understand, who are these communities that actually taught a five part course on the Otafe and the communities of the Otaf and on Aza? Who are these people? Where did they come from? Why are they here? What's the zionist story? What's the Tanakh story?
And in order to, you know, we know we were here before. We'll be back here again.
Take the long view, right. One of the most famous Khorban and Giula stories, of course, is the end of Masachet Makot. Right. Rabbi Akiva and the chachamim. And they're walking, and they see the fox coming out of Harabite, out of the Kodesh Kodashim, and everybody starts crying. Rabbi Akiva starts laughing. Why? Because Rabbi Akiva takes a long view. He says, if the Khorban has happened, those Nivuod have come true, then the good, the nivod of Gula are going to come true. And. And we do have to see that trajectory of history and understand also something this year, anything that I was teaching about this year, Hanukkah talking about the Hashmonai revolt, or Yom Hazmoden talking about 1948. These processes don't happen very quickly. Okay. The revolt of the hashmonayim against the Greeks takes more than 20 years till it's completed.
Even 1948. Right. Took a year and a half.
These are long. These are long term goals. Things don't happen. We've been spoiled by these very short, the six day war. But things take a long time. It's a long process.
How are we going to remember that this year. I don't know.
It's a good point. Again, more for the philosophy than for the history.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: I'm interested to ask, because you mentioned you've been doing tours on the OTAV. And I think people have different feelings about, on the one hand, people are very comfortable to go on a tour of the southern excavations or to Poland, but they're not so sure about whether they should be going to the kibbutz or to the OTF. Now, you mentioned that you'd be doing tours there. What are your thoughts on it? Should we be going? Should we be visiting or.
[00:29:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I haven't done a lot. I've done it a few times.
And like I said, I really always emphasize, partly because of my nature, I emphasize, first of all, the history, the background, but also the more positive stories. I am not a person who's gonna come and tell you horror stories. This is not what I do.
But I definitely felt very ambivalent in the tour guide community, if I can speak for more than myself. I think most people feel very ambivalent about it.
It's also a very big difference between Israelis, and I will say Hootsnikim, but mostly Americans, and I say this with utmost respect. Americans come, and they really do feel this obligation to see it, to go home, what they call bearing witness, to go home and to tell the story.
And Israelis are like, we're living that story. We're in that story.
Please be sensitive to us.
So I don't, you know, I started out saying, absolutely not. This is a terrible thing to do, and I've evolved. But I do think that people who go need to go with great sensitivity.
And when I do take people, you know, we have speakers, I say, you know, if you're going to ask questions, think about that question a lot before you ask it. Be aware that everyone in Israel is going through something now. There's really nobody who's not affected in some way. And just be aware of that. Be aware that this is our life all the time.
So, look, and the other side of it is, these kibbutzim really do need support. They need their story told. They also need money. And if this is going to help them with that, then I think that that is a good thing. But, yes, I can totally understand that people would object to anyone coming to their personal kibbutz.
And also, we don't. Our story here is not Poland. We are not Poland. This is not the Holocaust. It's an inappropriate comparison.
And I don't think that we need to belabor that idea.
It's complicated. It's a very complicated time that we're in. We very much appreciate people who are coming and supporting us. It has to be done in the right way. Let's put it that way.
[00:32:27] Speaker B: So this year, I guess there's a final question just to ask you. I guess this year, where would be the first place or the number one place you would recommend or that you would be taking people coming to Israel this year?
[00:32:37] Speaker A: I mean, Yerusha. It's all about Yerusha. Everything is, you know, you have to understand our roots. And especially now, when outside of Israel, Jews are being bombarded by the most gross and hateful falsehoods about all this garbage about colonialism, and you're not really here, and you're interlopers. You have to know your roots. You have to know that we are here. We have been here for thousands of years. We're not going anywhere.
And understand the background to the story, that it doesn't begin in 1948 or in 1918 or even in 1882, that it begins way, way, way back with Abraham. So come to Jerusalem and understand. Walk the paths, see the stories, and understand your connection here. I think that that's super important these days. There's so much delegitimizing and there's so much fake news and falsehood that's out there. And even lots of Jews have no idea of our deep, deep connections to this land. And that's a very important thing. I also think that as much as we emphasize our connections, we also have to emphasize that we are a very pluralistic country. We are not a country that practices apartheid. And when you walk around in Jerusalem, you spend five minutes at Shariafo, you understand how many types of people are coming through the gates here, are part of the story, are living here, and have been here for a very, very long time, and are with some bumps in the road managing to live here together. So I think that that is hugely important.
[00:34:30] Speaker B: On that note, Shali, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. And thank you for everything that you do to help us and see things in the bigger picture and understand our part in this story of jewish history.
[00:34:45] Speaker A: Thank you. I'll put in a plug if people are here and want to do a little three weeks prep. So on Friday, I'm doing a tour with my friend and colleague, Doctor Josefa Fogel Ruble, who's a wonderful Tanakh teacher. And I think you probably have had her before, or she definitely is connected to parents.
[00:35:04] Speaker B: She will be. She will.
[00:35:05] Speaker A: She's amazing. She does a great podcast also, and we are going to do a tour in the old city in the footsteps of Yirmiyahu. So anyone who is interested is welcome to email me. I think that my email will be in the show's notes and happy to hear from anyone who is interested.
[00:35:23] Speaker B: Amazing, Shuli, thank you so much again.
[00:35:26] Speaker A: You're welcome. Thank you.
[00:35:28] Speaker B: Well, that's all for this episode of the Corin podcast, and thank you again to Shali for joining us. If you'd like to find out more about Shili, her work, and her tours, we've got all the details. As we said in the show notes of this episode. If you're looking for inspiration or reading material for the three weeks of fetisha Aba Av, don't forget to look on our website website. Personally, I will obviously recommend our Masoret Harav Qi, not with the commentaries and introductions based on the writings and teachings of Rav Soloveitchik, as well as Yael Zeigler's incredible book on Sefer Eicha on lamentations as part of our mugid studies in Tanakh series. Those, amongst others, are great ways to get in the right frame of mind for this time of year. And of course, if you use discount code podcast at checkouts, you will get 10% off your whole order. If you'd like to reach us, you can email us on podcastorampub.com or reach us on all socials. We'll be back in a couple of weeks for another episode in the run up to Tisha Bav, but until then, thank you for joining us. And this has been the Corimp podcast.
